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Reading the Wheel of Time: Everyone Wants to Help and They Can’t Be Trusted in Robert Jordan’s The Dragon Reborn (Part 7)

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Reading the Wheel of Time: Everyone Wants to Help and They Can’t Be Trusted in Robert Jordan’s The Dragon Reborn (Part 7)

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Reading the Wheel of Time: Everyone Wants to Help and They Can’t Be Trusted in Robert Jordan’s The Dragon Reborn (Part 7)

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Published on April 9, 2019

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Reading The Wheel of Time Dragon Reborn

Welcome back, gentle readers! It’s already Week 7 here in Reading the Wheel of Time. In this round we’ll see Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne starting into the very beginnings of thinking and politicking like proper Aes Sedai, Galad and Gawyn making an (not entirely) unwelcome appearance, Elaida coming back into our story, and Mat finally getting Healed.

Although everything that happens in Chapters 16-18 is very interesting, I found it a bit of a slog to recap and analyze. There’s a lot of talking, and although we get some more pieces for our puzzle, I think we will have to wait a while yet to see where they fit. Especially the part that Elaida will play in events; I’ve got a feeling it’s going to be substantial.

Upon entering Nynaeve’s room, she and Egwene find Elayne there waiting for them, along with Gawyn and Galad. Egwene is flustered when Galad takes her hand and tells her that he was worried about her, full of thoughts of how beautiful he is, and wishing she was in a prettier dress. It almost feels to her like his smile is a knowing one, and she thinks she would just about die if he knew where her thoughts were going.

From a chair, Gawyn asks where they have been, a question he has been asking Elayne this whole time, though to no avail. She repeats to him that it is none of his business, and explains to Nynaeve that she came to the room because she didn’t want to be alone, and the boys followed her, despite her protests, and refuse to leave.

“But it is our affair, sister,” Galad said. “Your safety is very much our affair.” He looked at Egwene, and she felt her heart jump. “The safety of all of you is very important to me. To us.”

“I am not your sister,” Elayne snapped.

“If you want company,” Gawyn told Elayne with a smile, “we can do as well as any. And after what we went through just to be here, we deserve some explanation of where you’ve been. I would rather let Galad thump me all over the practice yard all day than face Mother again for a single minute. I’d rather have Coulin mad at me.” Coulin was Master of Arms, and kept a tight discipline among the young men who came to train at the White Tower whether they aspired to become Warders or just to learn from them. “Deny the connection if you will,” Galad told Elayne gravely, “but it is still there. And Mother put your safety in our hands.”

Gawyn adds that they had to talk fast to avoid being dragged home themselves, and although Elayne is quick to point out that they were no doubt determined to continue their training with the Warders, Galad insists that her safety was their first concern and explains that they managed to convince Morgase that they needed to stay to protect Elayne when she returned. There is a great deal of danger in the White Tower now, and although Galad has only heard rumors of the Black Ajah, he knows that some Aes Sedai have even been killed.

Elayne turns away, and Gawyn, frustrated, pleads with Nynaeve that they are not villains, that they only want to help. He reminds them that Morgase will want to know that Elayne is back, and why she ran off, and talks of the turmoil in the Tower and Morgase’s fear at discovering that her daughter had vanished without a trace. And now Elayne has been gone for months, and all they know is that she must have gotten in trouble with Sheriam, since she’s clearly been crying and won’t sit down.

Nynaeve cuts him off, telling the boys sharply that Elayne doesn’t owe them anything, and that since she clearly doesn’t want to tell them anything, Nynaeve is asking them to leave.

“But, Elayne—” Gawyn began at the same time that Galad said, “We only want—”

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Nynaeve spoke loudly enough to drown them out. “I doubt you asked permission to enter the Accepted’s quarters.” They stared at her, looking surprised. “I thought not. You will be out of my room, out of my sight, before I count three, or I will write a note to the Master of Arms about this. Coulin Gaidin has a much stronger arm than Sheriam Sedai, and you may be assured that I will be there to see he makes a proper job of it.”

Gawyn tries to protest, but Galad gets up, looming over her with a smile that even Nynaeve can’t help but be affected by. He apologizes smoothly, promising Nynaeve that they meant no offense, that they are here if the girls need them, and that they can help with whatever caused them to run away in the first place.

Nynaeve returned his smile. “One,” she said.

Galad blinked, his smile fading. Calmly, he turned to Egwene. Gawyn got up and started for the door. “Egwene,” Galad said, “you know that you, especially, can call on me at any time, for anything. I hope you know that.”

“Two,” Nynaeve said.

Galad gave her an irritated look. “We will talk again,” he told Egwene, bowing over her hand. With a last smile, he took an unhurried step toward the door.

“Thrrrrrrrrr”—Gawyn darted through the door, and even Galad’s graceful stride quickened markedly—“ree,” Nynaeve finished as the door banged shut behind them.

Elayne is delighted with how Nynaeve handled the situation, even more when she realizes that there is no rule prohibiting men from being in the Accepted’s quarters. Nynaeve remarks that she would have just let them leave, but Galad was making such a show of taking his time about it.

Elayne observes that Egwene didn’t say very much, and points out that while Galad is quite good-looking, he’s also horrible, as he will always do right as he sees it, never disobeying their mother, never telling a white lie or breaking a rule, and always prepared to turn someone else in for breaking a rule. “…there isn’t the slightest spite in it—he seems sad you could not live up to his standards, if anything—but that doesn’t change the fact that he will turn you in.”

Egwene can’t quite see it, so Elayne presses the issue, suggesting that Gawyn is a better candidate for her affections; he hasn’t shown his interest, given the way that Egwene looks at Galad, but Elayne knows better.

“That is nice to know,” Egwene said, then laughed at Elayne’s grin. “Perhaps I can get him to say some of those things to me instead of you.”

“You could choose Green Ajah, you know. Green sisters sometimes marry. Gawyn truly is besotted, and you would be good for him. Besides, I would like to have you for a sister.”

“If you two are finished with girlish chatter,” Nynaeve cut in, “there are important matters to talk about.”

Elayne agrees, asking to know what the Amyrlin said to them, and Nynaeve starts to explain. At Egwene’s protests, she points out that it was only Egwene and Nynaeve who Liandrin saw as a threat, who someone sought to kill, perhaps because they are still a threat or perhaps because they were closeted alone with the Amyrlin. They need someone else, and if the Amyrlin doesn’t know they’ve enlisted Elayne’s help either, so much the better, as far as Nynaeve is concerned. The Black Ajah may be the biggest danger, but the Amyrlin will certainly use them for her own ends.

Egwene impresses upon Elayne that this will be as dangerous as anything they faced in Falme, and that Elayne doesn’t have to be involved this time. Elayne says that she understands, but that this is the kind of courage that is expected of the Queen of Andor. If she hasn’t yet learned to control her fear, she needs to before she takes the throne. And in any case, how could she pass up a chance to have an adventure instead of scrubbing pots?

Nynaeve points out that she’s going to have to do both, and explains everything that transpired with the Amyrlin. She also tells them that she is concerned that the Amyrlin might let Mat die. Neither Elayne nor Egwene can believe that, but Nynaeve insists that Verin never said that Mat would be healed, only that the Amyrlin would “see him” and that the Amyrlin avoided answering yes or no when Nynaeve asked about it. She reminds both of them that Mat, too, is only a tool in the eyes of the White Tower. This makes them useful, but “if you break a tool so it cannot be fixed, you don’t weep over it. You just get another one.”

She tells them that she might be able to heal Mat herself, with her medicines and a bit of luck—Elayne points out that Moiraine and Verin couldn’t do it together, even with an angreal, and that Nynaeve could burn herself out or even kill herself trying to channel that much power. Nynaeve answers that they keep telling her she has the potential to be the most powerful Aes Sedai in a thousand years, and perhaps it’s time to test that; but Egwene, recognizing Nynaeve’s fear and equal determination, suggests working together. Elayne agrees that it is a good idea and urges that they get moving before they can change their minds, but as they head towards the door it opens and and Elaida enters the room.

Even though most Aes Sedai only wear their shawls for formal occasions, Eliada is wearing hers, with the red fringe that announces her as Red Ajah. She regards them sharply, observing that she shouldn’t be surprised to find them all together.

Nynaeve curtsies and asks permission to leave, claiming to need to catch up on her studies, but Elaida snatches up her bag and inspects it, dropping the herbs on the floor when she sees what they are, and telling Nynaeve that she is not a village Wisdom any longer, and that trying to hold onto the past will only hold her back.

“Elaida Sedai,” Elayne said, “I—”

“Be silent, novice.” Elaida’s voice was cold and soft, as silk wrapped around steel is soft. “You may have broken a bond between Tar Valon and Caemlyn that has lasted a thousand years. You will speak when spoken to.” Elayne’s eyes examined the floor in front of her toes. Spots of color burned in her cheeks. Guilt, or anger? Egwene was not sure.

Elaida sits, making herself comfortable and leaving them to stand and wait. Egwene can see Nynaeve tugging on her braid and hopes that she will be able to keep her temper.

After studying them in silence for a while, Elaida asks if they know that the Black Ajah is in the White Tower. Nynaeve answers carefully that they were told about it.

Elaida arched an eyebrow. “Yes. I thought that you might know of it.” Egwene gave a start at her tone, implying so much more than it said, and Nynaeve opened her mouth angrily, but the Aes Sedai’s flat stare stilled tongues. “The two of you,” Elaida went on in a casual tone, “vanish, taking with you the Daughter-Heir of Andor—the girl who may become Queen of Andor one day, if I do not strip off her hide and sell it to a glove maker—vanish without permission, without a word, without a trace.”

“I was not carried off,” Elayne said to the floor. “I went of my own will.”

“Will you obey me, child?” A glow surrounded Elaida. The Aes Sedai’s glare was fixed on Elayne. “Must I teach you, here and now?”

Elayne raised her head, and there was no mistaking what was in her face. Anger. For a long moment she met Elaida’s stare.

Egwene’s fingernails dug into her palms. It was maddening. She, or Elayne, or Nynaeve, could destroy Elaida where she sat. If they caught Elaida by surprise, at least; she was fully trained, after all. And if we do anything but take whatever she wants to feed us, we throw away everything. Don’t throw it away now, Elayne.

Elayne’s head dropped. “Forgive me, Elaida Sedai,” she mumbled. “I—forgot myself.”

Elaida lets go of saidar, remarking that Elayne has learned bad habits while she was away, habits she cannot afford. Elayne will be the first Queen of Andor to be Aes Sedai, the first Aes Sedai queen anywhere in a thousand years, and one of the strongest Aes Sedai since the breaking of the world, perhaps even strong enough to rule openly as an Aes Sedai. But she commands Elayne not to risk all that—Elaida has invested too much time to let her lose it all.

Elaida is concerned that the three are in danger, since their mysterious departure and sudden return bracketed the departure of Liandrin and the other Black Ajah. She does not want to see Elayne accused of being one as well, and so to protect her (and by necessary extension, the others) she must know why they ran away and what they have been doing. She looks to Egwene at that.

Although she has not taken the oath that would make it impossible for her to lie, Egwene has heard that Elaida can hear a lie sometimes, and she fumbles for something that will be close enough to satisfy the Aes Sedai.

She explains that it was about Mat, that he was sick and they went so they could bring him to be Healed. She struggles to hold up under Elaida’s penetrating gaze.

“That is enough, Egwene,” Nynaeve said. Elaida’s penetrating look shifted to her, but she gave no sign of being affected by it.

She met the Aes Sedai’s eyes without blinking. “Forgive me for interrupting, Elaida Sedai,” she said smoothly, “but the Amyrlin Seat said our transgressions were to be put behind us and forgotten. As part of making a new beginning, we are not even to speak of them. The Amyrlin said it should be as if they never happened.”

Elaida’s tone remains neutral, remarking that it’s interesting that the Amyrlin would announce their punishment publicly if she meant their actions to be forgotten. The announcement was unprecedented for anything less than a stilling, and meanwhile, Elayne and Egwene are to be raised to Accepted.

After glancing at Elaida for permission to speak, Elayne explains that the Amyrlin thought she was ready, and that she has learned and grown. Elaida repeats the words blandly, then turns her attention back to Nynaeve and Egwene to inquire about another young man besides Mat who also comes from their village—Rand.

Egwene felt as if an icy hand had suddenly gripped her stomach.

“I hope he is well,” Nynaeve said levelly, but her hand was a fist gripping her braid. “We have not seen him in some time.”

“An interesting young man.” Elaida studied them as she spoke. “I met him only once, but I found him—most interesting. I believe he must be ta’veren. Yes. The answers to many questions may rest in him. This Emond’s Field of yours must be an unusual place to produce the two of you. And Rand al’Thor.”

Nynaeve insists that it’s just an ordinary village, but Elaida asks them to tell her about Rand al’Thor, who surely the Amyrlin has not also commanded them to be silent about. Egwene racks her brain for an answer while Elayne stares at the floor, and Nynaeve is just about to say something when the door opens again.

At that instant the door opened again. Sheriam regarded the room with a measure of surprise. “It is well I find you here, Elayne. I want all three of you. I had not expected you, Elaida.”

“Elaida stood, arranging her shawl. “We are all curious about these girls. Why they ran away. What adventures they had while gone. They say the Mother has commanded them not to speak of it.”

“As well not to,” Sheriam said. “They are to be punished, and that should be an end to it. I have always felt that when punishment is done, the fault that caused it should be erased.”

The two women regard each other for a moment, and then Elaida agrees, remarking that perhaps she will speak to the girls later about other matters. She gives them each a rather warning look and then leaves.

Elayne exclaims in surprise that Elaida actually threatened her with stilling if she doesn’t stop being willful, but Sheriam assures her that she misunderstood, that if being willful was a stillable offence the list of the stilled would be too long to memorize. But that doesn’t mean they don’t have to act meek when it is required of them.

They answer “Yes Aes Sedai” in unison, but Nynaeve quickly gets on Sheriam’s nerves again by asking about the Gray Man and if Sheriam has discovered who killed him. This prompts the Mistress of Novices to realize that Nynaeve has already told Elayne about it after Sheriam expressly forbade her from doing so. She explains that the only other people who know besides herself and the Amyrlin, and now Egwene, are two men who don’t know anything else about the situation except that a man was killed. And if Nynaeve and the others won’t follow Sheriam’s orders, perhaps they will follow the Amyrlin’s command not to say anything.

But Nynaeve still presses, reminding Sheriam that it’s the seven people they know of plus whoever murdered the man, and perhaps others who helped him get into the Tower. Sheriam tells her off quickly, that she will do whatever investigation is necessary and they must forget they ever saw the man, or they will learn that there are worse punishments that scrubbing pots.

Egwene is relieved that Nynaeve responds as obediently as the rest of them to that command, but more than that she feels like laughing hysterically at the knowledge that if the Black Ajah doesn’t catch them, Sheriam probably will.

Then Sheriam tells them to follow her, and when Nynaeve asks where to, she reminds them that Healing in the Tower is done in the presence of those who brought the sick person.

Egwene thought that the Mistress of Novices’ stock of patience with them was about used up, but before she could stop herself, she burst out, “Then she is going to Heal him!”

“The Amyrlin Seat herself, among others, will see to him.” Sheriam’s face held no more expression than her voice. “Did you have reason to doubt it?” Egwene could only shake her head. “Then you waste your friend’s life standing here. The Amyrlin Seat is not to be kept waiting.” Yet despite her words, Egwene had the feeling the Aes Sedai was in no hurry at all.

Sheriam takes them down deep beneath the Tower, down to the same area where the novices take their last test before being raised to Accepted, and where the Accepted swear the Three Oaths. It’s also the location of the storerooms that Liandrin and her followers broke into.

When Sheriam stops suddenly, Egwene squeaks in alarm, and has to explain that she was thinking about the Black Ajah.

“Do not think of it,” Sheriam said, and for once she sounded like the Sheriam of old, kindly if firm. “The Black Ajah will not be your worry for years to come. You have what the rest of us do not: time before you must deal with it. Much time, yet. When we enter, stay against the wall and keep silent. You are allowed here as a benevolence, to attend, not to distract or interfere.” She opened a door covered in gray metal worked to look like stone.

Inside they find Mat, laid out on a long, fabric-draped stone table, the Shadar Logoth dagger at his side. The Amyrlin is standing at his head, and Leane at his feet, with four Aes Sedai, including Verin and Sheriam, on each side. Despite their calm demeanours, Egwene can detect some anxiety in them, in the tilt of their mouths or the way one of them brushes her hands down her dress.

The Amyrlin takes out a white fluted wand that Egwene recognizes from her lectures as one of the most powerful sa’angreal the White Tower possesses. She realizes that the Aes Sedai aren’t sure that can heal Mat, even with the sa’angreal.

The Amyrlin announces that she will “meld the flows” and warns the other Aes Sedai that the amount of Power needed to heal Mat is very close to an amount that will kill him. They begin their work, and Egwene can see the glow around the women as they channel, and a brilliant white light around the sa’angreal. It’s difficult for Egwene to resist the urge to open herself to saidar as well, and Nynaeve actually takes a step towards the table before she can stop herself, and Elayne’s hand trembles in Egwene’s. They watch as Mat’s body arches off the table, his hand clutched tightly around the dagger. Then his grip springs open and his hand slowly creeps away from the hilt, fighting every inch as his lips pull away from his teeth and grunts and grimaces in pain.

“They are killing him,” Egwene whispered. “The Amyrlin is killing him! We have to do something.”

Just as softly, Nynaeve said, “If we stop them—if we could stop them—he’ll die. I do not think I could handle half that much of the Power.” She paused as if she had just heard her own words—that she could channel half of what ten full Aes Sedai did with a sa’angreal—and her voice grew even fainter. “Light help me, I want to.”

She fell silent abruptly. Did she mean that she wanted to help Mat, or that she wanted to channel that flow of Power? Egwene could feel that urge in herself, like a song that compelled her to dance.

“We must trust them,” Nynaeve said in an intense whisper, finally. “He has no other chance.”

Suddenly Mat shouted, loud and strong. “Muad’drin tia dar allende caba’drin rhadiem!” Arched and struggling, eyes squeezed shut, he bellowed the words clearly. “Los Valdar Cuebiyari! Los! Carai an Caldazar! Al Caldazar!”

Egwene recognizes some of what he’s saying as battle cries of Manetheren, and for a moment she even thinks she might understand the rest. Then the dagger rips away from his belt and rises into the air above his body as Mat continues to shout, including the words “Aes Sedai,” and then trails off into a scream of rage. One of the Aes Sedai, Anaiya, uses a set of tongs to take hold of the dagger and place it into a box with sides at least two inches thick. Mat continues to scream until she has it safely inside and shuts the lid.

At the same time, Mat’s body collapses back onto the table and all glow around the Aes Sedai disappears, some of them visibly sagging in weariness as the Amyrlin announces “Done,” in a hoarse voice. Verin is fascinated that the Old Blood could be so strong in Mat and starts whispering with Serafelle. The Amyrlin ignores Nynaeve asking if Mat is Healed to order a White Aes Sedai, Brendas, to have Mat taken back to his room.

Nynaeve repeats her question, more demandingly, earning her raised eyebrows from Sheriam, and the Amyrlin tells her coolly that Mat is as well as he can be, and free from his bond with the dagger, but only time will tell what effects may come from his carrying it for so long. She believes he should live. When Elayne asks what Mat was shouting, the Amyrlin tells them that he was ordering soldiers in a battle from two thousand years ago. But Nynaeve insists that she heard the words “Aes Sedai.”

For a moment the Amyrlin seemed to consider, perhaps what to say, perhaps whether to say anything. “For a time,” she said finally, “I believe the past and the present were one. He was there, and he was here, and he knew who we were. He commanded us to release him.” She paused again. “ ‘I am a free man, Aes Sedai. I am no Aes Sedai meat.’ That is what he said.”

Leane sniffed loudly, and some of the other Aes Sedai muttered angrily under their breath.

“But, Mother,” Egwene said, “he could not have meant it as it sounds. Manetheren was allied with Tar Valon.”

“Manetheren was an ally, child,” the Amyrlin told her, “but who can know the heart of a man? Not even he himself, I suspect. A man is the easiest animal to put on a leash, and the hardest to keep leashed. Even when he chooses it himself.”

Sheriam interrupts then, reminding the Amyrlin that it is late and the cooks will be waiting for the girls. Egwene asks if they can stay with Mat, but the Amyrlin tells her firmly that she has chores waiting, and Egwene knows that she doesn’t just mean scrubbing pots. As they leave she takes one last glance back at Mat, who still hasn’t moved.

 

Oof. I apologize for using so many excerpts this time around, but this is definitely one of those sections where paraphrasing ends up about as long as the original text anyway. And there is so much being said between the lines in these conversations that is hard to capture without a lengthy explanation.

What that recap doesn’t really capture is the vivid details in these chapters, especially in the Healing scene. Each Aes Sedai is described, and the tone and description of Mat’s convulsions and the way the dagger almost seems alive as it fights the Aes Sedai is film-like in its detail; I could see every moment perfectly in my mind’s eye. It’s not the first time I’ve said that of Jordan’s descriptions, either, and I’m sure it won’t be the last.

There is also so much good character work in these chapters! If you’ve been following the read, you know how much I love character work.

Egwene’s interest in Galad and the reveal of Gawyn’s interest in her creates a cute little love triangle, and I wonder if Egwene isn’t going to find herself caught between Lawful Good and Neutral Good, so to speak. Despite the fact that, back in The Eye of the World, she was the most eager to run away and see the world of any of our protagonists, Egwene has a stronger streak of belief in, and adherence to, establish law and rules. Nynaeve appears to be that way at first, but it’s been shown how much of that is only Nynaeve’s own personal judgments that matter to her, whereas Egwene will often at least try to see why she should follow the commands of others. She was the most eager to trust in Moiraine from the beginning, partly because of her desire to learn to channel, but I think she also recognized and liked the authority Moiraine carried.

I think I could see her in a position of authority herself one day, perhaps Mistress of Novices, or even Amyrlin.

Her defense of Galad is another example of this perspective. She can’t see how always doing the right thing could be bad—I think her choice of the word “uncomfortable” is a nice, neutral way of implying without saying outright that it would be the rule-breaker’s fault after all. However, I also think that she would recognize the difference when actually confronted by a choice. Her recognition of rules and authority has never extended to going against her own sense of right, as we have seen from her willingness to hide Rand from the Amyrlin when they were in Fal Dara, they way she didn’t even have to think before leaving the Tower when she thought he was in danger, and in her determination to do whatever is necessary—channel, run away, etc.—to protect herself from Whitecloaks and Aes Sedai alike.

What both Elayne and Min have told us about Galad doesn’t make a lot of sense the way they phrase it, but when they say “he will always do what is right” I think what they mean is that he follows the letter of a law rather than its spirit. They mean that, unlike Egwene, when faced with a decision in which what is technically correct and what is morally preferable, Galad will always choose the former. And that is a dangerous thing, especially for our young heroines. It reminds me a little bit of Whitecloak thinking, actually, where one may start from a good and just place (fight the Dark One and protect those who walk in the Light) and follows a line of thinking that still has the appearance of being correct and moral but can actually lead to a very dark place. Just like the Children, he may find himself hurting the wrong people, misjudging both enemies and friends, in his attempts to do “right.”

Of course, we only have Elayne and Min’s words on this. Min’s is ostensibly more objective, but I do wonder what opinions I might have once I’ve actually seen Galad in action. He does not seem to hold any kind of moral judgement against Elayne for running away, and a man who “always does what is right” would probably not hide such an opinion just to make Elayne more likely to speak to him. Perhaps he is reserving judgment until he learns the full story behind her disappearance, or perhaps he is more concerned with his own duty to protect her and serve his mother’s wishes than with having opinions on something that Elayne has already been punished for, as Gawyn noticed.

I am curious about Elayne’s attitude towards her relation with Galad. I understand her anger towards him, but her insistence that he is not her brother seems perhaps to be more than that. There may be some family politics here that we haven’t seen yet.

In any case, I imagine the girls are right not to confide in them, although I do rather hope they will bring Gawyn into their confidences eventually. I really like Gawyn, and his conduct with Rand back when he and Elayne first encountered him in the gardens makes me feel pretty good about who he is as a person. Also, his unending cheerfulness would make a nice addition to the group, narratively speaking.

Elayne’s observation about how she is often held to a higher standard because of her title, rather than getting off easier, is an interesting one. In an order where, ostensibly, previous titles should not matter, I am curious as to what effect nobility and class have on people’s lives in the White Tower. Obviously Elayne is a special case, since, even if she is raised to full Aes Sedai she is ultimately being groomed by the Tower to take the Throne of Andor. But what happens when other royal ladies, other high-born daughters, show promise in channeling? Enough, perhaps, to become Aes Sedai but not enough to gain distinction among the ranks? Would they, too, feel the weight of rules and punishments more keenly in their years as novices and Accepted? Or is it only because of Elayne’s unique situation that she finds herself in such a position?

Like Galad, I think Elaida may end up being a character who has relatively the right goals and is on the side of Good and Light, but who will end up in opposition to our heroes anyway. I do believe that she genuinely wants to protect Elayne and serve Andor, but I think she is also the sort of person who believes that the way she sees things is correct and right, and won’t be okay with some of the unconventional paths that these new young Aes Sedai are taking—never mind the schemes Moiraine and the Amyrlin are up to.

Come to think of it, Elaida is accustomed to holding a position of great power as the advisor at the side of the Queen of Andor. I doubt she’s going to stop trying to be the power behind the throne… or in this case the Seat. If she’s looking into Rand, she could be a real danger to Moiraine and the Amyrlin, and a new one, since she was never around before to worry them. Now however, Siuan better watch her back, because if anyone is ready to dispose her and take over, it’s probably Elaida. And like I said last week, all this talk of stilling has definitely got to be leading up to something big.

I was pleased that Nynaeve became suspicious of the Amyrlin’s intentions for Mat, but on the other hand, I imagine that even if the Amyrlin had decided to let him live before Nynaeve asked about it, she might have answered exactly the same. Nynaeve might need to ask a lot more questions of other Aes Sedai in her work hunting the Black Ajah, but the Amyrlin’s not going to let that extend to her. I don’t anticipate this conflict lessening anytime soon, either. Whether it’s the Amyrlin or Sheriam, Verin, or just some random other woman, I can’t really see any of the girls coming to trust the Aes Sedai they are supposed to take orders from, and that is a huge part of how learning in the White Tower works. Even Sheriam acknowledges this when she says that they must learn to “appear” meek—if this were an ordinary group of girls in ordinary circumstances, it would mean biding their time until they became Aes Sedai themselves. But these aren’t ordinary students, and with the Black Ajah on the loose and the Dragon declaring himself, they might not even have time to feign meekness.

The irony of Sheriam telling Egwene that she won’t have to worry about the Black Ajah for years can’t have been lost on anyone. Of course, Sheriam doesn’t know that they’ve been literally and formally tasked with worrying about the Black Ajah, but even without that particular tidbit, she knows that there at least were Black Ajah in the Tower, running around stealing things and killing people, and she can deduce as well as anyone that there could very well be more. Not to mention that Gray Men are sneaking into the Novice quarters and getting mysteriously murdered! Like really, Sheriam, I’m pretty sure everyone has to worry about Black Ajah right now.

I’ve been musing to myself about the possible motivations one might have to become a Darkfriend, particularly for an Aes Sedai. Power-lust seems to be the driving motivation of most of the known Darkfriends we’ve encountered, but we also had Ingtar, whose motivations were actually much purer. Ultimately he wanted to protect his people, and his fear and despair in the face of the encroaching Shadow led him to believe that joining the Darkness was the only way for them to survive. I wonder if such fear and despair exists in members of the Aes Sedai. They have more power to fight the Dark One than most people do, but they are also far more aware of what the true dangers are, and are often the ones putting themselves on the line to protect everyone else, just like the forces of Shienar and the other Borderlands.

And while Ingtar was frustrated that his people’s efforts to keep back the Blight and the Shadowspawn weren’t even known by the rest of the world, the Aes Sedai are in a position where they are not only unappreciated but actually vilified. It would not surprise me at all if some of the members of the Black Ajah looked at the extreme danger the world is in, and then looked at how most people hate and fear Aes Sedai, maybe had one too many unpleasant encounters with a company of Whitecloaks, and decided to do what she felt would best serve her, and forget the rest of the selfish, ungrateful world.

But is it possible for people to become Darkfriends in less dramatic ways? Like, can one just… saunter vaguely downward? (Sorry, the Good Omens TV show is coming soon and I just can’t help myself.)

I’m also still unclear as to how the benefits of Darkfriend associations work. What do you get for signing up? The Man Who Called Himself Bors was more or less entirely interested in what he’d get after the Dark One was victorious, but that can’t be everyone’s primary driving force. And the Dark One can’t touch the Pattern, so it’s not like he can get you a better job or wealth or fame just for the promise of your loyalty. It must be more concrete than that.

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I don’t know where I’m going with this, really. I just have this picture in my head of Myrddraal showing up at the homes of well-to-do Darkfriends and being like, “We got another random person to sign up. He wants to be rich. Give him some money.” Can’t imagine the Darkfriends in the nobility would be too happy with that arrangement, but when a Myrddraal tells you what to do, you don’t argue. We’ve seen that for sure, more than once.

Mat’s healing was fascinating, and a nice chapter change-up to have a little action in the midst of all the conversations and plotting. I think this is the first time we’ve encountered the White Ajah, too, though I guess we knew there was one because we got all the colors listed out on the steps in the mirror dimension. I am curious as to what the White Ajah are about—the way the narrative kept describing the White Aes Sedai as “cool-eyed” seemed significant, somehow, more than just a random character feature. I still don’t know what most of the Ajah groups mean, as a matter of fact. Brown is knowledge. Blue is… justice? I think? Greens are some kind of warriors, which confused me a little because of the Three Oaths, but I suppose they are specifically devoted to fighting Shadowspawn and the Dark One’s armies. (They also get married sometimes, and can have more than one Warder.) I don’t know what Yellow, White, and Gray do. And then of course, there’s the Red Ajah, who are responsible for hunting down and gentling men who can channel, but as the Red existed before the Breaking, they must either have more purpose than that or have had a different purpose originally.

Another big question for me is this recurring theme of how the Old Blood is strong in the Two Rivers. When Mat accesses the Manetheren chants and other bits of the old tongue, it’s unclear to me if that is supposed to be through a sort of genetic memory or if Mat is accessing a former life he himself had. How reincarnation works for everyone who’s not the Dragon hasn’t really been explained, so at this point it could be either, or even both somehow. However, the Amyrlin says that the past and present became one, so perhaps what happened is that Mat didn’t know which of his lives he was living, in that moment. I wonder if this concept will come again, perhaps allowing other characters, maybe even Rand, to access former lives and gain useful knowledge.

I’m finally a week ahead again in my reading, so I can tell you that we are covering three more chapters next week, Chapters 19-21. We’ll get a brief foray into whatever weird things are going in in Mat’s head. (Seriously, what is going on with the boy? Is this how his thought process always worked, or have a few screws been knocked loose while he was busy being possessed by Mordeth Paranoia™? “Welp, I’m in a strange town, having nearly died, and I’m surrounded by powerful Aes Sedai. Guess it’s time to go gamble!”) And then we get into some more development around the World of Dreams which I am quite excited about, as I’ve been enjoying speculating about Perrin and the Wolves dreaming so much these past few weeks.

See you next week, and down in the comments below!

Sylas K Barrett does not want to be that guy, but he has to admit that “meld the flows” sounds very naughty.

About the Author

Sylas K Barrett

Author

Sylas K Barrett is a queer writer and creative based in Brooklyn. A fan of nature, character work, and long flowery descriptions, Sylas has been heading up Reading the Wheel of Time since 2018. You can (occasionally) find him on social media on Bluesky (@thatsyguy.bsky.social) and Instagram (@thatsyguy)
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TBGH
5 years ago

You’ve officially crossed the line from insightful to spooky. And moderators, can we clarify the ajahs for Sylas? It was in the appendix previously I believe.

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5 years ago

I believe the purposes for all the Ajahs is in the glossary? Also, while Sylas is very wrong on some conjectures, he’s so right on others that I’m kinda thinking he’s cheating and already knows future plot points.

With respect to your last bit about next week and what’s going on in Mat’s head – I think it’s very purposeful that this is the first Mat POV that we get in the series. I would guess that RJ didn’t want to have his thoughts spread out while he was still connected to the dagger, since presumably they’d have been tainted by that before he was healed in this chapter. 

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5 years ago

I really can’t wait to see how your thoughts and opinions change on some of these characters in the coming books.  And yes, we will learn more about various motivations for joining the Black Ajah.

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Jeremy M
5 years ago

// Sylas is really lining them up and knocking them down this week. //  Great analysis, things are starting to come to a boil, time to add the pasta.

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5 years ago

and JimIII (#1 & #2)

I would not be for laying out the purposes of all the Ajahs to Sylas right now, as he will find out what each of them do through the text, but I do think it should be okay to point out that the Red Ajah (or any of the current Ajahs for that matter) in fact did not exist before the Breaking — the reason I feel comfortable pointing that out being that I am about 94% sure that the Dawn of the (Modern) Ajahs is never explained in the books proper.

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5 years ago

Excellent as always, Sylas. Being a baseball guy, I put this weeks analysis as two home runs, a single, a walk and a strike-out. That is a .667 avg. which is beyond outstanding. For someone never having read the material, even parsing it  for these post, you hit a lot of stuff people miss or just bow by in the moment of reading.Finally, we are getting to things like the World Of Dreams and Mat starting to be himself. Good Times.  I really enjoy your work here and the comments that follow.

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Austin
5 years ago

//I think I could see her in a position of authority herself one day, perhaps Mistress of Novices, or even Amyrlin.//

//What both Elayne and Min have told us about Galad doesn’t make a lot of sense the way they phrase it, but when they say “he will always do what is right” I think what they mean is that he follows the letter of a law rather than its spirit. They mean that, unlike Egwene, when faced with a decision in which what is technically correct and what is morally preferable, Galad will always choose the former. And that is a dangerous thing, especially for our young heroines. It reminds me a little bit of Whitecloak thinking, actually, where one may start from a good and just place (fight the Dark One and protect those who walk in the Light) and follows a line of thinking that still has the appearanceof being correct and moral but can actually lead to a very dark place. Just like the Children, he may find himself hurting the wrong people, misjudging both enemies and friends, in his attempts to do “right.”//

//Like Galad, I think Elaida may end up being a character who has relatively the right goals and is on the side of Good and Light, but who will end up in opposition to our heroes anyway. I do believe that she genuinely wants to protect Elayne and serve Andor, but I think she is also the sort of person who believes that the way she sees things is correct and right, and won’t be okay with some of the unconventional paths that these new young Aes Sedai are taking—never mind the schemes Moiraine and the Amyrlin are up to.//

//Ok, I think at this point Sylas is just trolling us!//

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5 years ago

Also, regarding Nynaeve thinking she could hold half the power of ten sisters with a sa’angreal – – we never get specifics on exactly how much extra power most angreal and sa’angreal boost channeling by, but that just strikes me as a wild exaggeration by Nynaeve. 

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

@1:

The explanation of each Ajah is coming up in like two weeks, after // Egwene’s raising to Accepted. // No need to rush it.

@7:

I dunno, at the pace Sylas is reading, its a lot easier to pick up on the things that were only obvious to us in hindsight, because we tore through the narrative. Sylas is, to my understanding, listening to the audiobooks, jotting down notes, then rereading the chapters, and thinking about every single word at an incredibly slow pace, then writing all that down in a 4000 word essay. For two to three chapters at a time. Sylas is also obviously extremely genre-savvy, and The Wheel of Time sits firmly inside genre expectations. Heck, The Wheel of Time set those expectations for a lot of the books that followed.

This week’s insights aren’t supernatural at the pace we’re going. Some of them are downright obvious.

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5 years ago

Holy moly this week’s commentary is hilarious both for its spooky accuracy and the enormity of its inaccuracy.  Well done.  I half suspect that this read isn’t quite as virgin as we’ve been led to believe.

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

jadis666@5:

I think you’re right that there is nothing at all outside the Big White Book of Bad Art that references the state of Ajahs in the Age of Legends. But that wasn’t published until post-Lord of Chaos. I’d love for Sylas to review the material in that — in publication order — as it contains the short story The Strike at Shayol Ghul. But it definitely shouldn’t be read before The Shadow Rising at the earliest.

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5 years ago

Egwene’s interest in Galad and the reveal of Gawyn’s interest in her creates a cute little love triangle, and I wonder if Egwene isn’t going to find herself caught between Lawful Good and Neutral Good, so to speak.

// Between Lawful Stupid and just plain ****ing stupid. Maybe that’s not fair but Gawyn is just painful. //

“Welp, I’m in a strange town, having nearly died, and I’m surrounded by powerful Aes Sedai. Guess it’s time to go gamble!”

//Dovie’andi se tovya sagain //

@8 But not nearly as much of an exaggeration as it would be for most other sisters..

ETA @10 It’s way less effort to just close read the text than to partially fuzz greater knowledge of the series. A good chunk of the craft RJ put into these books was getting the foreshadowing, themes, and wordbuilding to pile on top of each other. There’s so much detail and so many relevant hints that Sylas’ close reading is astoundingly effective. 

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5 years ago

It should be noted that Sylas’s excellent comments are not unique.  Other genre savvy first readers have picked up on an amazing amount of info – with the redoubtable WoT blog by Nexue being a prime example.  

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5 years ago

@12 – 

 

Yeah, I’m not seriously suggesting any dishonesty on the part of Sylas or Tor.  This week’s read in particular just felt a lot like someone yanking our chains and it made me laugh.

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Austin
5 years ago

Like @9 said, Sylas is reading and taking notes and really analyzing each chapter. Everybody who reads the books just plows through without stopping. Why would we? So it’s not such an amazing magic trick when you think about it. But still very impressive!

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5 years ago

As pretty much everyone else has said, pretty spooky.  Almost like the one “strikeout” mentioned @6 is thrown in there to throw everyone off the trail…I’m not saying that’s true, just, my word!  I laughed at all the extra-base hits, to prolong the baseball metaphor.  Truly impressive.

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Caddan
5 years ago

@9, “The Wheel of Time sits firmly inside genre expectations. Heck, The Wheel of Time set those expectations for a lot of the books that followed.”

This is, I believe, the heart of the matter.  Like Tolkien, Jordan is responsible for a LOT of the genre tropes within high fantasy.  It’s like saying “Well, I’ve been a wheat farmer all my life, but I’ve never planted corn.  Let’s see how that goes.”  When you’re that immersed in the genre, the things that Sylas notices become obvious.

And yes, the fact that he’s reading it in order to write these essays matters too.  It’s like the people who watch a movie trailer frame-by-frame and then publish “easter eggs that we missed”.  Well, duh, of course I missed them – I was watching the trailer at normal speed.  Any article series like this will, by necessity, end up this way.

Want something closer to our own experiences?  Read the entire book through, once, without taking notes.  Then put the book away and type up your essay.  That’s more realistic.

Yes, it’s spooky, and sometimes annoying, when Sylas picks up on things this early.  But we would do the same, if in his situation.

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GE Christopher
5 years ago

This read through has me interested in doing something similar myself just to see how well I can pick up little details of foreshadowing and how character traits lead to later decisions we aren’t obviously told will be placed in front of the character. Anyone have suggestions for a book or series to investigate this way?

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Jeremy M
5 years ago

@18 It’s not an inspired choice by any means, but Brandon Sanderson is a master of dropping plot hints early in his books that come to fruition in ways that seem completely impossible and yet so completely logical.  If you haven’t read the Mistborn series, that’s an option.  Also his current work the Stormlight Archive achieves the same feat very well.

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5 years ago

@18 For a shorter read, you might try the Beyonders. I’d be interested to hear how much you figure out as that book goes. It’s geared toward teens, but I enjoyed it.

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5 years ago

“Welp, I’m in a strange town, having nearly died, and I’m surrounded by powerful Aes Sedai. Guess it’s time to go gamble!”

To be fair, Mat’s predilection for gambling has been established before now.  At the beginning of the The Great Hunt, he spending the majority of his free time gambling with various soldiers around the keep.  On the ride from Falme to Tar Valon, he gambled with Hurin until he was too sick and weak to hold the dice cup.  There are probably a few other instances before now that I’m forgetting about as well.  At this point, gambling is something Mat just does whenever he can. 

But now that I think about it… Can any other experienced WoT readers remind if it’s ever explained why Mat likes gambling so much?  I mean, other than the fact that // he’s preternaturally good at it //

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5 years ago

Egwene is relieved that Nynaeve responds as obediently as the rest of them to that command, but more than that she feels like laughing hysterically at the knowledge that if the Black Ajah doesn’t catch them, Sheriam probably will.

 

loved this bit

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

If you haven’t read The Kingkiller Chronicles by Pat Rothfuss, there’s a lot going on in those books that are beneath the surface. Its like an iceberg — you only see 10% of what’s happening on your first normal read-through. And that 10% is great! On the surface, its an engaging, entry-level fantasy gateway drug with outstanding prose. But beneath the surface its — well, its something else entirely.

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5 years ago

@21 I would assume it just fits with his general personality – I think a lot of people enjoy gambling for the adrenalyne rush, and plus it’s a way to get lots of money without working (although you still need to use your wits), which would appeal to his lazy, mischevious but overall clever persona.

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Caddan
5 years ago

@21, do you really need another reason than that?  Sounds like a good enough reason to me.

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

@21:

// His dad. Abel Cauthon // was the same kind of scoundrel, and he idolizes // his “da” //. Also, Mat does like to gamble, but he’s also connecting with people, gathering information, etc, during these scenes. // This is how he identifies and connects with “his” people. // Its more than just the thrill of gambling.

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Austin
5 years ago

@23 – I would never recommend that series to anyone. That’s just mean. Let’s see if there will ever be a hint of a 3rd book before recommending it.

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5 years ago

It’s well established by this point in the series that Mat has always been a risk taker — Perrin and Rand are always thinking about how all the tricks and things they got in trouble for as children were Mat’s ideas. A natural inclination for risk-taking behavior goes hand-in-hand with gambling, it’s just that Mat never really had any money as a kid and there was nobody to gamble with in the Two Rivers anyway. 

This is something I’ve noticed is completely true in real life as well — I’m a lawyer, and I absolutely hate gambling, and I don’t know any lawyers who like to gamble. We all tend to be very risk-averse. Conversely, investment bankers, in my experience, all absolutely love to gamble, since risk-taking is a big part of their careers and their personal identities. Whatever other character traits he might have — and, don’t get me wrong, Mat is by far my favorite character in the series — it’s firmly established from very first book that, out of everybody, Mat is the one most likely to take risks.

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5 years ago

About Mat and gambling: // I don’t remember him enjoying gambling much in the later books. It’s just something he does to make money. //

trouty42
5 years ago

@21

To add to what some have already said, gambling, in this story, //is tied to battle. The ultimate gamble. And we know how much battle, and his knowledge of it,// is intertwined with Mat’s character.

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5 years ago

@29: Totally incorrect. //He gets completely furious in the later books because he realizes that, as the Raven Prince, he’s rich beyond all measure, and thus doesn’t have to gamble any more; he enjoys gambling so much that the fact that he has so much money that gambling is pointless drives him nuts. It’s also one of the things he loves about battles, because battles are always big gambles, even though with him and the Band it barely counts as such since they always win.//

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5 years ago

Nuns, as rot13 users say. (“Hahaha” is “Ununun” in rot13, so “Nuns” means “You said something I think is funny, but I can’t tell you why.”)

*raises eyebrow at Egwene* You assume that all non-Red Aes Sedai are attracted to men — specifically Galad — and all  Red Aes Sedai aren’t? Apparently.

Neuxue understatement of the day: “Mat doesn’t look like he’s having a particularly good time […]”

I love Verin’s response to this dramatic Healing scene: “Fascinating. That the Old Blood could flow so strongly in anyone today.” And the fact that she and Serafelle (Beautiful Name of the Day, along with Anaiya) started discussing the subject straightaway. I just love Verin so much. ///And loved her long before the Big Revelation that made her a fan favorite.///

Great description of Black Ajah hunting, among other things: ““Why, that’s like being told to go up in the hills and find lions, only you do not know whether there are any lions, but if there are, they may be hunting you, and they may be disguised as bushes. Oh, and if you find any lions, try not to let them eat you before you can tell where they are.”

///Sheriam continues to use “None of your business” to evade the girls’ pointed questions, though she doesn’t really need to. I wonder if her believe that a wrongdoing is over after it’s been fully punished (paraphrased, got no time to check the wording) is influenced by the ways Darkfriends/Black Ajah get punished, though she might not have been very active in that group at this point.//

Ironic line of the day: ///“Of course I’m afraid. I’m not a fool.” Oh Elayne. You’re going to become foolishly fearless.///

As Leigh said in the Reread Redux, ///Elaida’s suspiciousness at this point is reasonable from Elaida’s perspective: “I mean, here they are, two random girls, one of whom is a wilder, from the same village as a boy she Foretold would be front and center for Armageddon, who are freakishly strong in the Power, who are obviously far too stupidly tolerant of men to ever have Red sympathies, who spirited off the heir to the throne Elaida had personally staked out as her own property responsibility and had extremely vague adventures with her, before returning with yet another village boy whom the way-too-Blue Amyrlin herself is going to be Healing for reasons no one will explain.”///

 

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5 years ago

Oh, Gawyn. //I had high hopes for you at this point in the series. I liked him when Rand first met him and Elayne, and I like him here and in a few more chapters (especially his sense of humor), but man does he have a downward character arc.//

Reading as Sylas is doing, I might pick up a lot more than I did, but I doubt that I would // do as well as he is.//.

Sylas- good points about the appeal of becoming a Darkfriend. I guess some people might be drawn to it due to a love of violence and and/or a desire to do whatever they wanted without moral considerations. 

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Rombobjörn
5 years ago

The irony of Sheriam telling Egwene that she won’t have to worry about the Black Ajah for years can’t have been lost on anyone. Of course, Sheriam doesn’t know that they’ve been literally and formally tasked with worrying about the Black Ajah, but even without that particular tidbit, she knows that there at least were Black Ajah in the Tower, running around stealing things and killing people, and she can deduce as well as anyone that there could very well be more. Not to mention that Gray Men are sneaking into the Novice quarters and getting mysteriously murdered! Like really, Sheriam, I’m pretty sure everyone has to worry about Black Ajah right now.

Very true. Sheriam’s words are quite characteristic for the Aes Sedai way of thinking though. The children are to be protected and taught in the safety of the White Tower, while the grownups handle all the problems. Sheriam acknowledges that the Aes Sedai need to worry about the Black Ajah, but she believes (or possibly pretends) that the novices and the accepted can somehow be completely shielded from all that. What she fails to account for, though, is that the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills.

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5 years ago

@27 – There has been word. Rothfuss had a interview and mentioned that work is progressing, but much slower than he anticipated.

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Austin
5 years ago

@35 – Oh, I’m sure there’s various 3rd book related material on his computer. But I seem to recall a comment he made a while back about how much book the book was done, percentage-wise. He gave a number that seemed to have actually regressed from an earlier estimate. I.e. he trashed a bunch of what he wrote. So, nobody hold their breath for that final book…

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5 years ago

The Strike at Shayol Ghul isn’t in the BBoBA (at least not in my German edition). As far as I know it is only available online.

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5 years ago

@19, 20, 23

 

I’ve read the original Mistborn trilogy but not those that followed after. I’ll likely pick these up at some point. I am interested in Stormlight and Rothfus’s Name of the Wind, but were I to do a deep analysis like this I’d prefer it to be a series that was complete so I could move from book to book without losing too much time or memory of details. Any opinions on Erikson’s  Malazon series?

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5 years ago

@36 – Looked up interview. He says he wants to get stuff done.in order to finish The Doors Of Stone along with a couple other creative projects. You can take it with a grain of salt after all this time,(8 yrs.) along with GRRM being a inspiration for publication schedules.

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

@27:

I disagree. The first book, at least, is worth reading regardless of whether or not the larger story is ever finished. If the last book is never written, my life will still be enriched for having read it. Which is the point.

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5 years ago

@38 –  I say go for it if you don’t mind some blood and guts (along with gut wrenching personal scenes). It is a deep and complex series. As a heads-up, you are thrown right into the action and it can be a little confusing.

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5 years ago

Sylas: I can see (Egwene) in a position of authority, herself one day. 

///Me: Giggling Insanely //

I’ve always been curious about Mat’s Manatheran memories; are they genetic as everybody thinks or are they past life? Or maybe both. Egwene can ‘almost’ understand Old Speech which according to Moiraine is the normal sign of Old Blood, Mat’s ability to understand it was unusual from the beginning. 

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5 years ago

@42 princessroxana, I agree Mat’s understanding and speech of the old language was unusual. It really did seem that the Old Blood was strong in him.//  It wasn’t until he took his trip through the crooked doorway that he could speak the old language fluently.  // I just loved how Nynaeve stood up to Galad and Gawyn to boost them out of her room! ONE! TWO! TRRRRRREEEE.   LOL!

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5 years ago

“but as the Red existed before the Breaking, they must either have more purpose than that or have had a different purpose originally.”

 

Not sure where this notion came from, but I it is not a spoiler to say that this is incorrect. 

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

Birgit@37:

Its not exactly the same, but its really, really close. You can read a summary of the differences at A Wheel of Time Wiki:

Availability

Unfortunately, The Strike at Shayol Ghul is no longer available online via the Tor website where it had been previously hosted. It can now be found at Dragonmount.com

Nevertheless, a version of this also appears in the illustrated guide, The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time in the chapters entitled “The Fall into Shadow” and “The Breaking of the World.” If you already have this, you have probably already read it.

@42: 

I’ve always been curious about Mat’s Manatheran memories; are they genetic as everybody thinks or are they past life?

That would be really difficult to discuss without spoilers. And I don’t think its possible to know. But if its “Old Blood”, that’s genetic memory, not past life. So, either we trust Verin and Moiraine’s assessment, or we don’t.

I’m also a strong believer that the text doesn’t support // reincarnation // as a regular occurrence for everyone. Only a regular occurrence for the // Heroes of the Horn //. Not to say that most people won’t be // reborn eventually // (at the very least, by hope of Salvation and Rebirth, when the Wheel turns again to the Age in which they live), but I don’t feel its supported that normal people are // reborn even every Age //, much less multiple times in an Age, as would be necessary for Mat to be having visions of a past life, rather than genetic memories bleeding through.

Now, what is completely possible, but not confirmed within the text, is that all ta’veren are actually // Heroes of the Horn // — in which case, its completely possible that Mat could have been spun out several times in the Third Age, allowing for this scene to be an example of a past life memory, even if my suppositions regarding // the rarity of Rebirth // are correct. But, again, we don’t have any evidence that that is the case.

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5 years ago

@6 deadhedge:

Being a baseball guy, I put this weeks analysis as two home runs, a single, a walk and a strike-out. That is a .667 avg. which is beyond outstanding. 

Since walks do not count as for or against, this would count as a total of four at-bats with three of them being hits, which would be a .750 average.

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Austin
5 years ago

– Wasn’t there also a recent discussion that RJ, somewhat clumsily, //changed the source of Mat’s memories? I.e. at first he was going to use this Old Blood thing, but changed his mind and went with the Finns.//

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

@6, @46:

But we all know what really matters is the outstanding 2.25 slugging percentage this state line indicates.

@47:

I raised that as a supposition a few posts ago, and offered my reasoning why I think that. I’m not sure anyone agrees with me, though. I don’t think it was clumsy, though. I think he had a fantastic idea and rolled with it. The two ideas aren’t mutually exclusive.

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5 years ago

@47, I don’t see why it couldn’t be both. // Matt clearly had some memories, including memories of being a general, before the encounter with the Finns. They call him ‘Son of Battles’ and ‘Gambler’ and ‘Trickster’. IMO he’s been a master strategist and lucky gambler in all his lives and by digging out the roots of the hold the dagger has on him the Aes Sedai bring up some of those memories in addition to his genetic memory.  But that’s just me. I also believe the evidence indicates rebirth is the norm, that people actually dread being removed from the Wheel, unlike Buddhists who I believe long for it. //

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5 years ago

@47 – the problem is that the new fantastic idea doesn’t work.  The text makes clear he could perform the “activities” in question immediately once he arrived in that place – clear that the place did not give him the ability to perform the activities (even though he probably got better at it after the second go-round).  Hence, clumsy or worse and not internally logical.  

trouty42
5 years ago

@6, @46, @48

To wrap up the full slash line it would be .750/.800/3.050 (AVG/OBP/OPS)

OPS = On base% Plus Slugging% (.800 + 2.250) which comes out to just over 3 bases per plate appearance. Not bad at all. :)

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

@49:

To be clear, I wasn’t saying rebirth isn’t the “norm,” I’m saying each normal person doesn’t get reincarnated multiple times in a single Age, and that they probably don’t get reincarnated every Age. I’m saying that the “normal” reincarnation everyone experiences is a function of the Wheel — Old Cenn Buie will likely be reborn again. As Cenn Buie in the next Third Age. There’s absolutely no discussion in world whatsoever about Eastern-style reincarnation, where the point is you are reborn in a better or worse circumstance depending on how you lived this life.

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5 years ago

 Galad and Gawyn in fact have a point. Gawyn is quite literally sworn to protect his sister and Galad feels it is ‘right’ for him to act as if he is also so sworn. If you are going to do something dangerous two expert swordsmen could come in very handy. Pity the supergirls don’t think that way. 

I feel kind of sorry for Galad, rigid fellow that he is, it can’t be fun to hear the little sister you love deny you are her brother. Mind you I’m sure he’s given Elayne plenty of reasons to feel the way she does.

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edlicious
5 years ago

@52 I think you’re right, that it isn’t explicitly explained.  But, there are hints, especially when talking to the heroes of the horn.  Like right before the battle of Falme, and Artur Hawkwing suggest that Hurin may some day be tied to the Horn for bravery, to buck him up before battle.

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5 years ago

 Okay. That tell was too much. Benefit of the doubt aside there’s just no Bloody way you haven’t before. Nope. I refuse to believe it now.

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Brian
5 years ago

@18 You could try the Hollows series. It is a bit of a different genre, but I thought it was a great series.

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5 years ago

Two more. It’s not intuition when you make gleanings with no where near enough information to come to a “hypothesized” conclusion. Theres not enough context to get there. Granted sometimes the implication is such and vague enough that it could be assumed to being particularly observant. Others are so blatant and obvious that one has to at least have some sort of prior knowledge. In this case, it’s more than that even. It’s too prophetic to be prophetic. I refuse to believe given the information at hand currently and the number of times it has happened in just these chapters that someone could surmise the future in such a way no matter the accuracy or vacuity. 

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5 years ago

@46, 48, 51  The point is even with my fuzzy math, dude can RAKE. As far as that goes, I feel he is going slow enough to pick-up and follow up what most pass by on first read. Example: On first read I had my suspicions about a few things mentioned, but I did not take the time to think about them, I just plowed on through, caught up in the story. I feel that is what happened to most of us and to see someone like Sylas do what he is doing with the information (Going this slow on the read you can see that the basic info is there.) can be a little spooky

Landstander
5 years ago

I could never bring myself to read anything so slowly. Especially if I’m enjoying the material. Most of my favorite books were finished in a few days.

It’s a different story if I dislike the book. Then it can take anywhere between several months and forever (I still haven’t finished the Malazan series).

One of the appeals of this format is exactly what most commenters mentioned: witnessing Sylas being right or wrong in predicting what’s going to happen. This time, the analysis of Galad and Gawyn was especially intriguing

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5 years ago

// In AMoL Artur Hawkwing clearly states that Mat is not bound to the Horn. //

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

@60:

Isn’t he meaning that Mat didn’t // need to blow it // because of // his death in The Fires of Heaven // ? That’s the way I took it, at least. Mat was // bound to the Horn, as the Hornsounder, // and then he wasn’t. By the way, I don’t believe that all // ta’veren, or even Mat, are really Heroes of the Horn //. Don’t mistake me throwing out an idea people have for what I actually think. I was given a counterargument to my own argument when I said that. I think Jordan would have made that much more explicit if it were true.

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5 years ago

@61 // Sorry, I meant not a Hero of the Horn. //

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5 years ago

@28, I know lots of attorneys who enjoy gambling, my ex-husband among them.

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Rombobjörn
5 years ago

There is so much I could say about the chapters 16 and 17 that could only be discussed in white. Some very Pattern-weaving choices are made there. But I try to avoid posting too big white blocks, and I don’t have time to write it all down anyway.

And I just have to say that the title of this post is a perfect summary of these three chapters. “Everyone wants to help and they can’t be trusted”. Spot on!

Pero (#61):

There is a passage where Mat asks one of the heroes of the horn (another than Hawkwing I think) “I’m not bloody … one of you, am I?”, and gets an answer that seems to make it pretty clear that he is not. I suppose it’s not proven that the hero told Mat the truth.

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5 years ago

I always thought becoming a darkfriend was like any other pyramid scheme: Person A recruits, touting potential (but unlikely) benefits, without telling B how much it actually sucks. And likely, any benefit A may get comes from those downstream. 

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5 years ago

//Jordan is a master at foreshadowing, and Sylas is attentive and genre-savvy. It’s as simple as that. The clues are not necessarily easy to dig out of the text, but they are all there. And Sylas has had some spectacular misfires in addition to his spookily accurate predictions. I see no reason to suspect that Sylas is part of some vast conspiracy to… what, exactly? Entertain us with his insights in producing a regular column that is obviously a lot of work to put together? What’s the point of fooling us? And even if it were a sham, are you not entertained?

I don’t believe that Sylas has read the series but, more to the point, I don’t care, if I can read paragraphs like these that make me laugh out loud on a crappy day:

I really like Gawyn, and his conduct with Rand back when he and Elayne first encountered him in the gardens makes me feel pretty good about who he is as a person. Also, his unending cheerfulness would make a nice addition to the group, narratively speaking.//

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5 years ago

(#55 + #57)

As fernandan above me, I ascertain that the Conspiracy Theories have now officially started. Just as, I might add, they did on Neuxue’s Tumblr Liveblog when she too made some truly remarkable and at times frightening predictions.

//Mostly concerning walls and fireworks, in her case, as I recall :D//

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5 years ago

57. ZEXXES

Completely unthinkable, I’m sure you’ll agree, despite // how my own eyebrows were climbing up my forehead while reading the summary.

However, there is a simple expedient to disprove one variant of this obviously false theory, namely, that the OP is reading the whited-out-comments.  However, I will not spell it out, as it would be wholly counterproductive, just like that scene where Elaida tries to seduce Rand.

Wink-wink-nudge-nudge-SAY NO MORE!!!

//

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5 years ago

JonathanLevy @@@@@ 68

// What do you mean “tries”- when Elaida chased Rand in the snows she caught him, tied him up with pink ribons and had her way with him! Twice. //

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5 years ago

@69 ValMar

I was talking about the time that // she caught him in Myrelle’s bedchamber, and mistook him for one of Myrelle’s warders all prepped for a particularly lascivious cosplay evening.  The Near Snows chapter doesn’t qualify as seduction at all, unless you consider her spanking him as foreplay, and I’m NOT having THAT argument again. //

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5 years ago

Quick question, did we ever get an explanation for why there weren’t more //yellow ajah involved in Mat’s healing?? it seems logical to me considering their focus, but did they do browns instead because it’s more of a niche thing that they might have researched? or did Siuan pick this specific group of aes sedai for personal reasons and/or their personal talents/power levels?//

 

 

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5 years ago

JonathanLevy @@@@@ 70

Well, as it often happens in these debates, it boils down to definitions. // I would argue that by Elaida’s standards it was a seduction ;) It was certainly a seduction when darkfriend Leane seduced Mat and tried to kill him.// Wow, I can see how one could fall in to the fan fiction rabbit hole…

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5 years ago

bonyenne @71: No, we never do.  //  Given Siuan’s skills at Healing (“hardly her greatest skill, not very strong at all”, per KoD), it’s pretty clear that whatever they did wasn’t Healing in the traditional sense.  Although that still begs the question of why Siuan would be the one to lead the circle; it’s hard to imagine she happened to be the one most skilled at whatever was needed.  This may very well be another “early book” artifact where RJ hadn’t quite worked out the system fully.  //

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5 years ago

72. ValMar

 // Oh yeah?  And when she spanked Lan for breaking the tea set, was it also seduction??? //

Fan fiction?  Just because you don’t like my theory doesn’t mean you should call it – ok, I’ll stop now.  :D

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5 years ago

Yeah, lets start a debate about // spanking //, that would go well! Actually we will be having it in time, looking forward to it, or not… Can’t make my mind up

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

@71, 73:

This wasn’t a physical Healing. This was more like an exorcism. Not exactly // Yellow // territory. Like removing Sarumon’s possession of Theodan in Lord of the Rings. At least the movie version.

We find out later that the // Yellows // only have // one single weave // for all kinds of healing. Some people have a greater talent for it than others. One of the // Forsaken // laughs it off as a // battlefield medical tactic // taught to Aes Sedai who couldn’t do // “real” healing . That // weave // has nothing to do with what happens in this scene.

@74:

We find out later that // unless there is someone particularly skilled at a task, circles are always led by the person with the most status //. That would always be the Amyrlin when the Amyrlin is involved, of course. I doubt there was anyone particularly skilled at “Mordeth possession” hanging around the Tower. And this particular // circle was formed based on the amount of Power needed // . Siuan most likely just rounded up the most powerful Aes Sedai currently in the Tower that she felt she could trust with this task.

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5 years ago

@71 et seq.  Seems a pretty obvious miss that was later retconned.  At least one person with familiarity with the subject in question should have been part of the group effort.  It is implausible, absent authorial oversight, that not a single one was involved in the event in question.  

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Austin
5 years ago

The best solution is often the easiest one. The lack of //Yellow// in Mat’s healing scene was simply early RJ, who had not yet mapped out everything. Also, I would argue that this type of healing was more…mystical?…than what we see of the power later. I mean, how the heck do the Aes Sedai know what to do with this sort of thing? How many people have come to them, tainted by something from Shadar Logoth? 

Anthony Pero
5 years ago

, 78:

We find out what // Yellows // do in this book. In just a few chapters. So that’s not really the easiest solution.

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Rombobjörn
5 years ago

There were two women at the table who Egwene didn’t recognize, so they may have been Yellow. They didn’t seem to do anything other than provide more power to Siuan, but it’s possible that some of them discussed what weaves to use before the girls arrived.

I agree that this was more like exorcism than physical healing. On the other hand, Mat’s exceptional hunger suggests that the usual Healing weave was used. (It’s not normally advisable for a starving person to suddenly guzzle like that.) Perhaps it was a combination of Shadar-exorcism and Healing?

That the sisters were chosen for strength seems likely. According to what Verin said in Cairhien, the Amyrlin is among the three to five strongest Aes Sedai alive, so that may be why she led the healing herself instead of delegating.

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5 years ago

My thoughts in this is that we have no idea all of the skill sets of each Aes Sedai. Of course there are those who are known to be great healers. But we aren’t healing a broken bone. They were removing Shadar Logith taint while breaking the the link of the dagger from Matt. I don’t know about you, but I remember nothing about anyone else that is mentioned, even through example of deed that demonstrated such skills other than the Forsaken. And so to point out that it seems that the Amyrlin herself might have that skill and possibly be preeminent amongst all of those present in the tower at that time and since she may be more experienced and practiced at linked circles and possibly be more deft with her flows than any there, as well as being at that time amongst the strongest in the room or tower, it seems not at all out of place that she should lead that circle. Seeing that we have no evidence against or for other than she’s not a Yellow. 

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Curt
5 years ago

@28 @63

I am an attorney and I Love to gamble.  My law partner does too.